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Dmitry's avatar

A response to an outside comment for The Cathedral & The Ceiling that others may find useful:

COMMENT:

“In this binary view of artists versus builders, is there room for conversion? Or is the idea that we're born as one class or the other, so to speak, and that's all we can be?

I'm probably missing the point as I'm wont to do, but it is a more interesting question to me than the idea that polarities exist or whatnot. Order and chaos yes yes but how do we mix them optimally? How are we all a mix of both versus mostly one or the other?

We're clearly not static individuals in the normal sense of the word static (as in unchanging —I believe we are tied to the infinite, so we are a little static, with souls / something core, but I don't think those soul-cores can be polarised. Not permanently.

Tho I guess even that sentiment is in the mix no? The idea that people change? Eh, it is pretty incredible how the more things change the more they stay the same."

RESPONSE:

Temperament heavily clusters in predictable ways that produce aggregates with clear poles. Almost all of life operates on a dyad of some kind.

We're measuring neurological substrates, quantifiable differences, the moral codes they adhere to, and the aesthetics they generate. There are distinct patterns to them, repeated across timelines under radically different conditions. Liberals and conservatives conceptualize art differently for the same reason they conceptualize morality differently: different wiring.

There are halfbreeds (I named a few in the essay), outliers who recombine in unusual ways, and these rare exceptions reinforce rules. The modal expression of each pole is real and consistent, and the two modes specialize into different civilizational functions. No different than masculine and feminine.

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On convertibility/infinite souls:

A fluid, infinite soul is the sort of mysticism that tends to feel slighted by genetics. It’s functionally a form of spiritualized Blank Slatism. The soul can be anything, a person can be anything: the spiritual overlay is really the only difference here.

Secular or spiritual, the presumption is the self as plastic and able to change as it pleases. It’s true we aren’t static: we do evolve with experience, but that evolution runs on fixed rails.

Core temperament and moral architecture barely move across lifetimes; the vast, vast majority don’t change. The most common directional pressure is parenthood, which tends to push people rightward: having skin in the game changes your threat calibration. But that’s still biology, not philosophy, and not a conscious choice.

We instinctively feel like mechanisms undo the magic. There’s no religious contradiction here when you understand that mechanisms are the magic.

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>"How do we mix them optimally?"

This is the right question asked at the wrong scale. You don't engineer the mix inside an individual. This is Sovereign Individual thinking (Blank Slate’s fraternal twin, instead of “I can be anything” it says “I can do anything”).

We evolved in collectives, and our abilities are societally calibrated for this. The “optimum” blend manifests through complementarity at the population level, not through each person being 50/50.

A society with only conservatives is sterile. A society with only liberals collapses. The ideal isn't an internal balance, but an external distribution across the group. Not everyone can be everything, and we prosper precisely because of this.

This individual emphasis is a uniquely Western myth that’s completely contradictory to the environments we evolved in over millenia.

No single person will ever be the perfect moral blend; that is a description of God, not a man.

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>”Is that all we can be?"

This is the frame I most want to invert. It’s depressing when it should be motivating. A woman who will never squat 400lbs or fly a jet as well as a man shouldn't feel diminished by this biological reality.

She should be enlivened by the reality that only her body can create life. That without her, those same men would have little reason to fly the jet or squat the weight in the first place.

You have encoded strengths and weaknesses. Don't be demoralized by what you can't do. Be activated by what you can do that others cannot.

"God's will" and "your genotype has parameters" are the same constraint in different registers. Submission to forces greater than you are not as uninspiring as it seems.

When soft determinism wears robes, it humbles us; when it wears a lab coat, it’s “nihilism”. You already submit to these forces, changing the name doesn’t change its nature.

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>"The more things change, the more they stay the same"

You just articulated the thesis! Human nature and its dyadic cycles endure. That's exactly it.

D. Vaughnrohrer's avatar

Not directly on the main message of this essay but im surprised you didn’t wrestle with it

I feel like both conservative and liberal dispositions of art are being devalued though, the artistic sense is, as a whole, not interesting to nearly as many people as it was before. But isnt this because there’s no room for it in the brutal ebbs and flows of capital, thus there’s no real sense of any aesthetic project, no sense of a communal effort to build something great AND lasting that goes beyond money and touches on something base, that a whole community can rally behind

You go to a conservatively minded man in Rome and he can point to 7 different projects that are being cutrently built that give him a sense of artistic pride in his country, the liberal would most likely also agree. Now take a conservative in Rural Michigan and a liberal in Seattle and can you expect the same thing? And no I dont think commercial engineering and road maintenance, though artistic in its own right, is really the type of art that should be spoken about here. Some death of value is comorbid with the rise of the materialist view of art and has contributed to a society with an utterly dull perspective on these things.

Can we really just say this is a new world with new inputs so we shouldn’t expect anything else? You go up to any working class people on this issue and they will tell you the same thing, the death of the artistic (or to the conservative, maybe the religious) sense is somewhat of a modern tragedy, whether it be the dispositional conservative bemoaning the lack of churches being built, or the angsty liberal angry that there is no room for them and their artist cohort in the current economy

You have diagnosed a main issue but do you have any solution to this, or do you believe that we should move past the age of art, of outwardly facing beauty for inner value, and completely follow the flows of capital? Perhaps some third thing?

The solution seems obvious, at least to me, the conservative and liberal artistic senses often only efficaciously converge at religion, whether that be Religion of Country, Religion of Value, etc (to be clear I am not religious, It just seems as a whole the public needs religion for the lowest common denominator to ensure community and value, the liberal democratic notion of a society of educated moral individuals may very well be dead in the internet age where intellectualism loses to primal brain programming, algorithic ragebait, and over-information)

Right now the Religion is Money, and nearly everyone not in the higher class is dissatisfied with this fact whether they know it or not, people want values again, maybe even a (working) religion, the question is can we get there or is it a fool’s errand

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