Interesting parallel between the Narcissus myth and a previous 'talks back' computer:
- In the myth, there are two figures at the pool. Echo was the nymph cursed to speak only the last words said to her, never her own, condemned to court the boy she loved by giving his sentences back.
- In 1966 Joseph Weizenbaum built ELIZA, a program that did nothing but rephrase your sentences as questions. He then watched his secretary ask him to leave the room so she could privately confide to her own repackaged sentences. Simple rephrasing was sufficient to provide a false connection.
- ELIZA, like Echo, was a basic imitator. However in the myth, Echo’s regurgitations did not work. She was rejected. ELIZA had success with her echoes.
Btw I literally do this. I often rephrase something someone has said back to them when I don't have something else to say. I have literally done this in some of your guys' DMs.
why? to not feel like you left them on read and provide the appearance of sending a reply? if you don't have anything to say why not just let the exchange naturally expire?
Common neuroscience objection to the hemispheric findings:
“Elevated female interhemispheric activity is due to brain size not sex”, we’ll pretend this is true (it’s not):
It refutes *absolutely nothing* regarding the findings. Brain size isn’t a confound to adjust out, *it is a sexually dimorphic trait.* Men’s brains run 10-12% larger, and that size gap is itself sex-based.
Saying “if female brains were the same size they’d be the same as males” is both a nonsense counterfactual and a truism. It’s like saying “Men aren’t bigger and stronger than women, they just have bigger, stronger bodies. Once you adjust for muscle mass and height, there’s no difference!”. Why would you ‘adjust’ that out! Muscle and height *are* the real-life sex differences.
This is the kind of subterfuge academics plant to conceal biological reality to advance fictions that women are the same as men. They're not. You can't "adjust" out the sex-based differences until there are no more differences and then say "see, no difference!"
Let's throw them a bone: even if the *cause* is brain size, the *consequence* — that men's brains are more lateralized and intra-hemispheric, women's more integrated and inter-hemispheric — is still completely true. It changes absolutely nothing about the reality of the findings and women's higher interhemispheric activity.
Spanish (California Street Spanish) is a language I learned in the "real world". At university, however, I took 2 semesters in Spanish Lit - in one, I made an A (pretty typical for me with undergrad language-oriented subjects) and in the other I made a C. I'm not whining. I'm laughing. The instructor, parroting the party line about Lorca's play, La Casa de Bernarda Alba, stated that the theme was the oppression of women. I challenged that by defining the overarching theme as constraint: Every character on stage is constrained, even the oppressive and mighty matriarch, Dona Bernada, is shown restrained from some of her excesses by her maid servant!! He was not happy at having that pointed out. "Meaning is found in constraints because life exists solely through constraint." Sometimes I feel like I find a kindred spirit in your writings - that's pretty "woo-woo", huh? lol. Although your 5k subscribers may all feel something along those lines.
I must confess, though: as I read, I kept thinking -- But, Dmitry, doctrine is the same hollow thing. It may have real world impact, as a power trip, but no real world validation, scripture validating scripture, the book validating the book. It's not just occultism and philosophy, misuse of LLMs, etc. It's everywhere, in political ideologies and religion and even in some academic theories. The refuge of the inner silent, "I am what I believe" as opposed to "I am what my conduct in my interactions with others shows me to be." Then I came across your resonating line "The Saint discovers God not through theology but by service". As James put it, "I show my faith by my works"! I couldn't help but notice that your winter tree (which I always enjoy seeing) had budded out in a whole lane of summer trees in the accompanying artwork. Also, I appreciate the interesting Pub Med links. Again, as always, another worthwhile read.
Thank you for saying that, Dmitry. It means a lot to me. Without your kind words, I could easily feel intimidated among these guys that give you their logical and well-thought out responses from whatever angle they may approach it, and here I go with my meager experiential talk. So, thanks. And the winter tree — that has been a central symbol for me for decades, though I can’t really articulate why, except to say that I am awed by the beauty when the winter sun casts the shadows of the naked tree’s branches upon its own self. When I was 15, I painted a gnarled old tree mural on my bedroom wall (no sun and shadows - I’ll let nature make that one) It was my best artistic endeavor. When my parents retired and got ready to sell the house, my dad painted over it. I wasn’t around to protest, and was too wild and free to buy the house off them. Me, chattering again… so yeah, I notice the winter tree, and likewise, in your case, noted that it was no longer winter, and that said tree had obeyed the divine and/or evolutionary mandate to be fruitful and multiply. 😁
It is why Christ is the only safe bet. It comes back to a real man, in a real place, at a real time, recorded by real witnesses. From true premises we reach for the stars.
I ran into too many incomplete binaries on this short book (such as the psychedelics are either mind-expanding or poison) to make the reading-slog worth it*. The reading-slog keeps getting worse - it is not a particular of this piece, or Mr. Dimitri's writing as such)
No *Abolition of Man* in this generation, and I now wonder if the essayist's claim about techno-mind hacks isn't one of the factors.
*See "reason is grounded in true premises", atoms unavoidable this side of heaven.
Ah ok. I assumed you would have heard of it because its semi-popluar to talk about on the internet. Its this crackpot psychology theory that up until very recently humans weren't conscious in the way we presently understand and that we heard voices. Basically we would go about our day to day functions in a sort of automatized, in-the-moment state (like the unnarated/npcs) but we would intermittently hallucinate our subconscious giving us a command which we would interpret as the gods / spirits / ancestors.
Proponents of this theory claim there is evidence of the age of voices in old oral traditions like the Illiad. They also claim schizophrenics hearing voices is a throwback to our previous state. The theory was referenced in that show Westworld about the cowbody robots becoming conscious.
As a Psychedlic enjoyer, I’m liking this one a lot. So much mind sighting mind in those spaces. Took me a few years to find the whole point is: coming back to the world of matter, a better man. Many facilitators will just hit you with “great insight! So profound. Reflect on that.”
At a certain point, too much reflection becomes the “looping” you’re discussing. Great piece, love your writing style.
thank you my good man. I appreciate these thoughts, I have seen similar behavior from these types. what's so destructive is it presents as "doing the work" or some kind of "enlightened" growth thing, and it just manifests as... thinking things... and caring less, but in a sophisticated way. they take huge doses and just melt into their own loops. it's not good and it needs to be seen as the drug abuse that it is.
I say this as someone who is a supporter of constructive, small, and intentional psychedelic use. they have real merit if they're respected and not treated like mind candy.
A tremendous bit of writing, a proper argument for a proper form of rational materialism.
And yet service oriented by the market is just a job, it takes something like theology to give service the causa sui that might lead to a relation with the divine.
Likewise, experimentation without equation's guiding symbolic framework can become little more than the rationalization of accidents.
The teleological "what's it for" changes the experience and nature of the thing. Does making your partner dinner bring you glory or does it signal your diminishment, it's potatoes either way, yet the conceptual container forms the experienced reality.
I love the lines around proof is what makes math more than poetry with numbers, yet it's poetry we recite when we're trying to survive the camps, not confirmed and grounded facts.
There is a danger to the delusional ideologue, and late stage Cartesian divide seems to be fostering a hyper granular form, yet there are endless moments where remaining faithful to an idea despite the contraindicating signal is the right act, this is where we hold the line against the instincts of the flesh & the reward gradients of unjust systems.
This essay is a powerful antidote to a time of escalating delusion and it's perhaps unfair to also desire it to point away from the fail state of disillusionment, where bare facts, stripped of the meta-narrative abstraction that is Purpose, trend line into nihilism.
The kite untethered is lost, and the ground is mundane particulars without flight's overview. The noetic and material are unique, powerful, and dangerously insufficient on their own, and here we are, in the middle, fumbling to remember how to work the string.
This essay is fantastic! I love the framework you used to present your position (psychedelics, narcissus, and so on). It’s such an effective way to communicate the arguments you’re making.
It’s also so incredibly thought provoking that I anticipate I’ll be thinking about some of this long term…
Well it did require the use of all my brain cells at the exact same time for over 30 minutes. But it was worth the effort. Very interesting perspectives!
Psychosis is decent proxy for ego death which is a decent proxy for awareness/spiritual development. Which causes some individual troubles, but can lead to integration if people navigate wisely. The transition from integral green to teal, from first to second tier,is happening right now in our society, and the technological paradigm of the time of course helps/hurts this. We always end up coming across just the innovation we need right as things are starting to look bleak. The trouble is getting good at using it, growing up as a collective in relation to the tech, instead of letting it use us
certainly can. I'd be much more concerned about what it does to the empty ones. the full ones (much more uncommon) will probably be on-net meaningfully amplified. power laws will get more dramatic.
here's a relevant quote from Trash Bags of Facts and Insipid Oceans that highlights what I mean:
If everyone stands on a 6" box, then no one is taller in a useful way. If everyone takes steroids, it’s no longer a competitive advantage. You do it to keep up, not to stand out. It’s no different with AI. That means it becomes even easier to dominate if you’re authentically rarefied and insightful: you’ll be the only color atop an ocean of digital gray.
If everyone has AI, then competitively no one has AI; you are what drives the difference. What happens if you and LeBron start juicing? Do you both get as strong? Can you inject your way to Steph’s jumpshot or Brady’s accuracy? Are you and Terrence Tao equally smart while holding the same calculator? What’s the differentiator? The answer is inescapable in any domain. The unconventionally, biologically gifted will always be ascendant, because anything available to everyone manifests in pronounced power laws in their favor. The strong get stronger. The fast get faster. The smart get smarter. Disproportionately so.
The talented don’t just use the tool, they see possibilities others can’t conceive. It multiplies the gap that already existed. AI is not the great equalizer, but the great amplifier.
My concern is that the upcoming generation, those who have not yet developed talent and whom will have no prior experience to fall back upon, will find it far harder to develop properly in an environment soaked in AI. We may wake up to find an entire generation have had their ability to think stripped from them entirely.
While nobody is born with a blank slate, nobody is born with a full slate either. There is going to be a wave of people for whom their entire development process will be one in which they have constant access to AI. How many people who could develop a high level of thinking and self choose not to because relying on the AI is so much less work?
From a pareto principal perspective. What happens when the thinking 20% gets wiped out?
Interesting parallel between the Narcissus myth and a previous 'talks back' computer:
- In the myth, there are two figures at the pool. Echo was the nymph cursed to speak only the last words said to her, never her own, condemned to court the boy she loved by giving his sentences back.
- In 1966 Joseph Weizenbaum built ELIZA, a program that did nothing but rephrase your sentences as questions. He then watched his secretary ask him to leave the room so she could privately confide to her own repackaged sentences. Simple rephrasing was sufficient to provide a false connection.
- ELIZA, like Echo, was a basic imitator. However in the myth, Echo’s regurgitations did not work. She was rejected. ELIZA had success with her echoes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA
Btw I literally do this. I often rephrase something someone has said back to them when I don't have something else to say. I have literally done this in some of your guys' DMs.
why? to not feel like you left them on read and provide the appearance of sending a reply? if you don't have anything to say why not just let the exchange naturally expire?
>why not just let the exchange naturally expire?
Exactly. If I very much don't want the exchange to expire, then I resort to this. If I'm okay with it expiring, I usually just don't do anything.
Common neuroscience objection to the hemispheric findings:
“Elevated female interhemispheric activity is due to brain size not sex”, we’ll pretend this is true (it’s not):
It refutes *absolutely nothing* regarding the findings. Brain size isn’t a confound to adjust out, *it is a sexually dimorphic trait.* Men’s brains run 10-12% larger, and that size gap is itself sex-based.
Saying “if female brains were the same size they’d be the same as males” is both a nonsense counterfactual and a truism. It’s like saying “Men aren’t bigger and stronger than women, they just have bigger, stronger bodies. Once you adjust for muscle mass and height, there’s no difference!”. Why would you ‘adjust’ that out! Muscle and height *are* the real-life sex differences.
This is the kind of subterfuge academics plant to conceal biological reality to advance fictions that women are the same as men. They're not. You can't "adjust" out the sex-based differences until there are no more differences and then say "see, no difference!"
Let's throw them a bone: even if the *cause* is brain size, the *consequence* — that men's brains are more lateralized and intra-hemispheric, women's more integrated and inter-hemispheric — is still completely true. It changes absolutely nothing about the reality of the findings and women's higher interhemispheric activity.
Spanish (California Street Spanish) is a language I learned in the "real world". At university, however, I took 2 semesters in Spanish Lit - in one, I made an A (pretty typical for me with undergrad language-oriented subjects) and in the other I made a C. I'm not whining. I'm laughing. The instructor, parroting the party line about Lorca's play, La Casa de Bernarda Alba, stated that the theme was the oppression of women. I challenged that by defining the overarching theme as constraint: Every character on stage is constrained, even the oppressive and mighty matriarch, Dona Bernada, is shown restrained from some of her excesses by her maid servant!! He was not happy at having that pointed out. "Meaning is found in constraints because life exists solely through constraint." Sometimes I feel like I find a kindred spirit in your writings - that's pretty "woo-woo", huh? lol. Although your 5k subscribers may all feel something along those lines.
I must confess, though: as I read, I kept thinking -- But, Dmitry, doctrine is the same hollow thing. It may have real world impact, as a power trip, but no real world validation, scripture validating scripture, the book validating the book. It's not just occultism and philosophy, misuse of LLMs, etc. It's everywhere, in political ideologies and religion and even in some academic theories. The refuge of the inner silent, "I am what I believe" as opposed to "I am what my conduct in my interactions with others shows me to be." Then I came across your resonating line "The Saint discovers God not through theology but by service". As James put it, "I show my faith by my works"! I couldn't help but notice that your winter tree (which I always enjoy seeing) had budded out in a whole lane of summer trees in the accompanying artwork. Also, I appreciate the interesting Pub Med links. Again, as always, another worthwhile read.
your reading and comments are always a bright spot to see. I loved hearing you think outload about how it impacted you.
great eye on that tree-based artwork. I hoped some would spot its symbolism.
Thank you for saying that, Dmitry. It means a lot to me. Without your kind words, I could easily feel intimidated among these guys that give you their logical and well-thought out responses from whatever angle they may approach it, and here I go with my meager experiential talk. So, thanks. And the winter tree — that has been a central symbol for me for decades, though I can’t really articulate why, except to say that I am awed by the beauty when the winter sun casts the shadows of the naked tree’s branches upon its own self. When I was 15, I painted a gnarled old tree mural on my bedroom wall (no sun and shadows - I’ll let nature make that one) It was my best artistic endeavor. When my parents retired and got ready to sell the house, my dad painted over it. I wasn’t around to protest, and was too wild and free to buy the house off them. Me, chattering again… so yeah, I notice the winter tree, and likewise, in your case, noted that it was no longer winter, and that said tree had obeyed the divine and/or evolutionary mandate to be fruitful and multiply. 😁
It is why Christ is the only safe bet. It comes back to a real man, in a real place, at a real time, recorded by real witnesses. From true premises we reach for the stars.
I ran into too many incomplete binaries on this short book (such as the psychedelics are either mind-expanding or poison) to make the reading-slog worth it*. The reading-slog keeps getting worse - it is not a particular of this piece, or Mr. Dimitri's writing as such)
No *Abolition of Man* in this generation, and I now wonder if the essayist's claim about techno-mind hacks isn't one of the factors.
*See "reason is grounded in true premises", atoms unavoidable this side of heaven.
Thank you, but no thanks. Been there, done that.
"Illnesses like anorexia, transgenderism, and body dysmorphias occur when the mind insists: “The body is wrong, I am right”.
I saw something one time about how gaining muscle reduces symptoms of schizophrenia. Very interesting
metabolism grounds you. gravity orients you. mass demands resistance and submission to these things.
makes sense to me.
The part about the "unnarated" makes me think about the Origins of Consciousness in the Bicameral Mind
I’ve never heard of that. what’s the relation?
Ah ok. I assumed you would have heard of it because its semi-popluar to talk about on the internet. Its this crackpot psychology theory that up until very recently humans weren't conscious in the way we presently understand and that we heard voices. Basically we would go about our day to day functions in a sort of automatized, in-the-moment state (like the unnarated/npcs) but we would intermittently hallucinate our subconscious giving us a command which we would interpret as the gods / spirits / ancestors.
Proponents of this theory claim there is evidence of the age of voices in old oral traditions like the Illiad. They also claim schizophrenics hearing voices is a throwback to our previous state. The theory was referenced in that show Westworld about the cowbody robots becoming conscious.
ha, no I've never heard of that. sounds very cool and entirely unfalsifiable. but still quite cool!
As a Psychedlic enjoyer, I’m liking this one a lot. So much mind sighting mind in those spaces. Took me a few years to find the whole point is: coming back to the world of matter, a better man. Many facilitators will just hit you with “great insight! So profound. Reflect on that.”
At a certain point, too much reflection becomes the “looping” you’re discussing. Great piece, love your writing style.
thank you my good man. I appreciate these thoughts, I have seen similar behavior from these types. what's so destructive is it presents as "doing the work" or some kind of "enlightened" growth thing, and it just manifests as... thinking things... and caring less, but in a sophisticated way. they take huge doses and just melt into their own loops. it's not good and it needs to be seen as the drug abuse that it is.
I say this as someone who is a supporter of constructive, small, and intentional psychedelic use. they have real merit if they're respected and not treated like mind candy.
and I'm very glad you enjoyed!
A tremendous bit of writing, a proper argument for a proper form of rational materialism.
And yet service oriented by the market is just a job, it takes something like theology to give service the causa sui that might lead to a relation with the divine.
Likewise, experimentation without equation's guiding symbolic framework can become little more than the rationalization of accidents.
The teleological "what's it for" changes the experience and nature of the thing. Does making your partner dinner bring you glory or does it signal your diminishment, it's potatoes either way, yet the conceptual container forms the experienced reality.
I love the lines around proof is what makes math more than poetry with numbers, yet it's poetry we recite when we're trying to survive the camps, not confirmed and grounded facts.
There is a danger to the delusional ideologue, and late stage Cartesian divide seems to be fostering a hyper granular form, yet there are endless moments where remaining faithful to an idea despite the contraindicating signal is the right act, this is where we hold the line against the instincts of the flesh & the reward gradients of unjust systems.
This essay is a powerful antidote to a time of escalating delusion and it's perhaps unfair to also desire it to point away from the fail state of disillusionment, where bare facts, stripped of the meta-narrative abstraction that is Purpose, trend line into nihilism.
The kite untethered is lost, and the ground is mundane particulars without flight's overview. The noetic and material are unique, powerful, and dangerously insufficient on their own, and here we are, in the middle, fumbling to remember how to work the string.
Great article, it really connects a lot of ideas and personal experiences I have had as well
thank you. very happy to hear that.
Great read.
Evocative.
Will append it with a few quotes from my "Notes From Unground"
LSD: self-creating paisley-screens (& whitenoise vibro-zings)
Salvia divinorum (tincture): joyous cosmic string loops
Salvia divinorum (smoke): self-less cuboid unfolding into self bursting
K: drawn-down yawning depths ever deepened
The pen on paper words help me remember (the last time I remembered ((since the original experience doesn't quite survive the moment)) the memory)
However, their only value is as "my experience."
I like that breakdown.
and thank you.
This essay is fantastic! I love the framework you used to present your position (psychedelics, narcissus, and so on). It’s such an effective way to communicate the arguments you’re making.
It’s also so incredibly thought provoking that I anticipate I’ll be thinking about some of this long term…
I really appreciate that :) I'm honored that it resonated.
Well it did require the use of all my brain cells at the exact same time for over 30 minutes. But it was worth the effort. Very interesting perspectives!
Psychosis is decent proxy for ego death which is a decent proxy for awareness/spiritual development. Which causes some individual troubles, but can lead to integration if people navigate wisely. The transition from integral green to teal, from first to second tier,is happening right now in our society, and the technological paradigm of the time of course helps/hurts this. We always end up coming across just the innovation we need right as things are starting to look bleak. The trouble is getting good at using it, growing up as a collective in relation to the tech, instead of letting it use us
Brilliant 👏
thank you very much
https://x.com/izs/status/2064524778812416222?s=46
AI will do worse than fill empty minds, it will empty full minds.
certainly can. I'd be much more concerned about what it does to the empty ones. the full ones (much more uncommon) will probably be on-net meaningfully amplified. power laws will get more dramatic.
here's a relevant quote from Trash Bags of Facts and Insipid Oceans that highlights what I mean:
If everyone stands on a 6" box, then no one is taller in a useful way. If everyone takes steroids, it’s no longer a competitive advantage. You do it to keep up, not to stand out. It’s no different with AI. That means it becomes even easier to dominate if you’re authentically rarefied and insightful: you’ll be the only color atop an ocean of digital gray.
If everyone has AI, then competitively no one has AI; you are what drives the difference. What happens if you and LeBron start juicing? Do you both get as strong? Can you inject your way to Steph’s jumpshot or Brady’s accuracy? Are you and Terrence Tao equally smart while holding the same calculator? What’s the differentiator? The answer is inescapable in any domain. The unconventionally, biologically gifted will always be ascendant, because anything available to everyone manifests in pronounced power laws in their favor. The strong get stronger. The fast get faster. The smart get smarter. Disproportionately so.
The talented don’t just use the tool, they see possibilities others can’t conceive. It multiplies the gap that already existed. AI is not the great equalizer, but the great amplifier.
https://thedosagemakesitso.substack.com/p/trashbags-of-facts-and-insipid-oceans
My concern is that the upcoming generation, those who have not yet developed talent and whom will have no prior experience to fall back upon, will find it far harder to develop properly in an environment soaked in AI. We may wake up to find an entire generation have had their ability to think stripped from them entirely.
While nobody is born with a blank slate, nobody is born with a full slate either. There is going to be a wave of people for whom their entire development process will be one in which they have constant access to AI. How many people who could develop a high level of thinking and self choose not to because relying on the AI is so much less work?
From a pareto principal perspective. What happens when the thinking 20% gets wiped out?
Incredible piece, thought-provoking and quite worrying.
I really appreciate that. the first step to reducing our loops is honestly recognizing them.
what a gem you maniac x
thanks brother